Slaying Supervillains & Bad Policy with the Transformative Power of Stories: Our Friends at the Better Life Lab Show Us How
A Big Idea conversation with award-winning journalist Brigid Schulte and Haley Swenson on narratives that unite, building an inclusive economy, & their latest project
I feel as if we’re all characters in a bad Marvel movie, where the two megalomaniacal billionaire supervillains, once united by greed and misogyny, fall out because they realize, after 150 days of conniving and scheming, that they can’t control each other or agree on the right strategy to destroy the world as we know it—sowing chaos and uncertainty while we await rescue from a tall hunk in tights, as the dark, brooding skies break to reveal a new day.
We wait and wait as things get worse and worse, believing that a hero1 will swoop in to make everything right and that the bad guys will be hauled off to face the consequences of their actions. But the gag or unexpected twist in our Marvel movie is that no one is coming to save us.
This reality is finally beginning to sink in as millions of families are on the brink of losing healthcare and food ripped from the mouths of babies, while the well-to-do dive into dollar-filled pools like Scrooge McDuck—insert villain cackle and clasped hands. It’s shaping up to be a real horror movie—and I don’t like it.
It’s time to rewrite the script and introduce a new story—one of shared prosperity and access to opportunity, guided by a belief in a shared fate and collective good (what happens to me, happens to you, happens to all of us), and the power of America to live up to its promise of justice and equality for all.
Fringe is in, and I don’t mean on clothing
As of late, conservatives have been remarkably successful in crafting a grand narrative that resonates with millions across the country, attempting to time-machine us back to a period in our recent history when the only group of people with a full bundle of rights and voice in society were white men.
Ideas once considered fringe, racist, sexist, and even cruel now shape and inform our public policies and dominate the public conversation.
Progressives and Democrats have struggled to deliver a message or story that inspires and resonates with most Americans, as well as to provide an alternative vision worth believing in and investing in. The last time I recall having one was in 2008. We have our work cut out for us.
In this month’s Big Idea Interview, I talk with Brigid Schulte, Director of the Better Life Lab at New America, and Haley Swenson, a research fellow there, to explore how compelling stories anchored in the experiences of everyday Americans can challenge prevailing narratives around poverty and the social safety net, presenting an alternative vision for an economy and society that works for everyone.
They also show us how we can build empathy for others, shift cultural attitudes, and inspire action through a shared vision and by asking the right questions, ultimately winning big on the policies we all want and need most.
To listen to the complete interview, click here.
C. Nicole Mason: Brigid, you're a journalist and bestselling author of Overwork: Transforming The Daily Grind in The Quest for a Better Life. Can you talk a bit about how your work as a journalist, and specifically what you've seen and reported on over the last several years or decades, has informed your work at the Better Life Lab?
Brigid Schulte: Thank you. I never imagined I would end up at a think tank when I began my career as a journalist. Now, I use my skills to lead an innovative storytelling program at [New America], exploring how we can all live a good life across race, class, and gender. We try to answer a fundamental question: How can we make good on the promise of America?
I spent my career at The Washington Post writing narratives and sharing people’s stories. I found that the same themes and questions came up over and over again about having meaningful work that supports your life while allowing time for care, connection, love, joy, and play. This inquiry drives our work at The Better Life Lab—it’s not only personal but also structural.
C. Nicole Mason: I really appreciate that you all at the Better Life Lab are thinking about and addressing how we can live up to the promise of America—it feels both timely and urgent. As you both know, a great deal has shifted and been aggressively dismantled under the new Administration. It’s unclear how, or if, we can recover or deliver on this promise. How are you all considering what’s possible and what we can do?
Brigid Schulte: That’s a good question. At The Better Life Lab, we use stories, data, and research to shift cultural attitudes and introduce new narratives and perspectives into the public sphere. In our work, we emphasize and make plain the consequences of ineffective or misguided public policies and their real-time impact on people’s lives.
C. Nicole Mason: Yes, policies have real consequences in our lives, even if we don’t realize it. That’s why making the connection between narratives in the media about people, groups, and communities and public policies that come about as a result of those narratives is so critically important.
Brigid, you often say the shortest bridge between two people is a story. It’s what I think about when I’m sitting across from a stranger or straining to understand someone’s perspective, politics, or beliefs—I’m like, huh, there’s a story there. If I knew it, I might soften, see the person’s humanity, or connect rather than disconnect from them. Can you discuss why stories and narratives matter in terms of changing perceptions and mobilizing people in support of policies that we all need and care about?
Brigid Schulte: The way we as human beings understand ourselves and the world is through stories. Our brains are wired to comprehend things and narrate stories about them. The stories we tell shape the world we live in, or what some call idea technology. They shape our [politics], policies, and influence our institutions. They also establish what we consider right and normal.
C. Nicole Mason: That’s a good point—about the power of stories and narratives to establish what is viewed as right or normal, especially now. They also shape our individual and collective sense of fairness, justice, and equality. At The Better Life Lab, you recently launched a new project focused on shifting narratives around poverty. Can you say more about that work?
Brigid Schulte: We focused extensively on narratives about people living in poverty. Depending on your beliefs, you’ll reach different [policy] solutions. If you believe poverty stems from bad character, poor choices, or laziness, you’ll favor punitive policies. More sticks than carrots dominate the current national rhetoric, suggesting people aren’t working hard enough. However, our new research shows this [narrative] is entirely false.
We found that individuals who are poor enough to qualify for minimal family support, such as SNAP or Medicaid, are employed, with many of them working full-time. Therefore, the real story—and the truth based on people’s actual experiences—is far from the narratives that have been established or normalized: people are working incredibly hard, but their jobs do not pay enough or provide benefits like paid leave or healthcare.
In most other countries, healthcare, family leave, and, in some instances, childcare are seen as rights, not benefits to be granted or withheld by an employer. In the U.S., this is not the case. Here, hourly wage jobs lack benefits or protections.
The stories we share help us better understand the problem this creates for working people and their families. The system also fails to support individuals in making fulfilling choices. It is not designed to genuinely support individuals in making good choices to lead fulfilling lives.
C. Nicole Mason: Yes, and when we frame it this way, it becomes less about personal responsibility or an individual problem—where people feel demoralized or devalued because they struggle to make ends meet—and that turns into anger or resentment—and becomes more of a structural problem—where you begin to understand that the system is broken and not working for most Americans.
Brigid Schulte: Let me hand it over to Haley to discuss one of our most powerful stories in the series, featuring a woman named Chantel who worked two jobs yet still lacked health insurance.
Haley Swenson: Thanks, Brigid. Chantel, a Navajo single mom from Blanding, Utah, was devastated by the pandemic. She lost family members to COVID and was laid off from her after-school program job. Without employment, she depended on government assistance and stimulus checks. Eventually, this support dwindled, leaving families like hers struggling. Meanwhile, Elon Musk tweeted on X that federal benefit recipients are parasites. I can't comprehend hearing stories like Chantel’s and believing such things.
C. Nicole Mason: That’s right, you can only say or tweet things like that if you are significantly out of touch or only surround yourself with people who look, think, or have similar life experiences as you. It’s a way of othering and dehumanizing individuals and families.
Brigid Schulte: These narratives are pervasive and powerful, repeated by figures like Elon Musk about cutting the “gravy train,” while ignoring that one-third of people in the U.S. rely on family-supportive public benefits.
It’s also leading us to ask the wrong questions. The wrong question is, what's wrong with those people? The right question is, why have we created an economy that doesn't work for so many families? That's the question nobody is asking. Narratives about gravy trains and the poor as parasites scapegoat families and avoid identifying the root causes of inequality and real solutions.
Brigid on why asking the right questions will lead to better public policies and outcomes for families
C. Nicole Mason: About ten years ago, I wrote a memoir about my family’s experience with poverty. Similar to the Better Life Lab's work, I aimed to challenge entrenched ideas about poverty and why people are poor. It frustrates me that we're still having the same conversations as a decade ago. How can we amplify these new narratives, make them a more prominent part of the public conversation, and ensure they stick?
Brigid Schulte: Great question, Nicole. Rather than just telling a story, we focus on the impact and meaning of stories—what they reveal and how they can inform policy. We consider who benefits and who loses, and emphasize voices and solutions from those experiencing poverty or hardship. We also have to continue to share these stories.
Haley Swenson: We've asked ourselves about the value of our work and whether storytelling is the best way to help turn the tide back in our favor, and we believe it is. Conservatives are currently successful at telling stories that feel true to people, but we bet that won't last long, as this isn't a path to family flourishing.
C. Nicole Mason: You’re right; our side hasn’t been effective lately in crafting a compelling narrative that resonates with most Americans or counters the harmful narratives presented as truth by the Administration. What’s your suggestion for using stories, some highlighted in your work, and the experiences of everyday Americans to unite people around shared goals and an inclusive vision for change? How do we create a vision that resonates and connects personally with people?
Brigid Schulte: This is a great question. Ideas circulating in the Trump administration, GOP-led Congress, and many GOP state legislatures, once fringe, now include beliefs that government should be minimal, the market knows best, and family matters are private. These views are tied to traditional roles, where men are often seen as breadwinners and women as caregivers. There has been no strong response from Democrats or progressives, and that is what people want—a real vision.
C. Nicole Mason: Yes, and time is running out because these ideas that were once fringe or deemed untenable due to their racist and sexist undertones are now becoming policies. Can you discuss how you see your work fitting into complementing or providing an alternative to the broader media landscape?
Brigid Schulte: Absolutely, that’s a fantastic question and one we think a lot about at the Better Life Lab. We're seeing significant shifts in the media landscape and a contraction both nationally and locally. We help fill these gaps by contributing to a larger ecosystem, including [movements for social change], researchers, academic institutions, and traditional news outlets.
Haley Swenson: We bring diverse voices and perspectives into the public square, ensuring they're part of the conversation. We engage with people in the field to understand their needs. Our name reflects our experimental nature; we will try things, report back, build from it, evaluate what worked, and adapt. Frankly, I believe that's the best we can do right now.
C. Nicole Mason: Yes, and there is an opportunity for us to insert our voices in a larger way and elbow our way in to carve out space where there hasn’t been any--How can we do this, and more effectively?
Brigid Schulte: As I observe the media landscape, my career experience tells me the old advertising model is ineffective, and that ownership [and control] by large [for-profit] conglomerates is failing. Nonprofit news models are garnering interest. In that sense, I view The Better Life Lab not as a [traditional] newsroom, since we are part of New America. We maintain the same high standards of rigor and let the story lead, as traditional newsrooms do.
Nicole, maybe it’s just the journalist in me—you’re such a great thinker and researcher. What do you think we should focus on and do right now?
C. Nicole Mason: We need to inspire people with a compelling narrative and vision they can support. Currently, we don’t have one. While we don’t need to agree on every detail or tenet, it's crucial to provide a credible alternative to the Conservative and GOP positions that people are embracing. Additionally, people want to feel heard and valued, and we haven’t done a good job of that either, in terms of listening or making everyday Americans feel seen.
Brigid Schulte: And people get wound up talking about programs or the minutia of policies. That’s great, but so many people don’t understand how the government works or what some of the federal agencies do. As a result, they may ask: How do the changes in policies, budget cuts, the mass firings of workers, or the closures of agencies directly affect their lives?
People get wound up discussing the minutiae of programs and policies, which is fine, but many don’t grasp how the government operates or the roles of federal agencies. As a result, they may wonder how policy changes, budget cuts, mass layoffs, or agency closures directly impact their lives.
That’s why we must continue to tell the stories of people where they live to increase understanding and help connect the dots. We can’t afford to get lost in the details; Too much of our conversation is in the weeds.
C. Nicole Mason: True, much of our conversation is stuck in the details. Most Americans do not closely follow legislation or Congressional developments. However, when asked about their health insurance, bills, or childcare, they have something to say. They can express their concerns, daily pressures, and desires for their families. But the specifics of policy? No. This may explain why we're struggling to connect; people might feel we’re not with them, even though we absolutely are.
Brigid Schulte: Absolutely, and acknowledging the reality of their lives and their aspirations for their families' futures is the most significant concern for them—we have to go straight to the heart of that.
C. Nicole Mason: Yes. Lately, I’ve been thinking about the goal of good policy, which I believe is, for most of us, to have a better life.
We all want to live well on our terms and to have our basic needs met. This holds true regardless of whether you live in a blue or red state. There's something so simple about that message, and using it as a foundation—a starting point—and then building on. It is very much connected to the work you all do at the Better Life Lab.
One final question: How can we tell better stories and introduce new narratives that help people understand what’s at stake for them, their communities, and those closest to them? How can The Better Life Lab assist in this?
Brigid Schulte: One thing we can do is tell a variety of stories about different people in various circumstances. In these stories, there's always a unifying element. There is no single story out there; there are a million stories, and we have to listen to all of them.
Haley Swenson: I think about young people, and it’s crucial that they don’t feel as if they are being deceived or lied to. Part of this involves recognizing that things haven't been great and are not going well. They are searching for a narrative that explains how we got here, what is happening now, and how it can be changed or improved for their futures.
Frankly, the right has been giving them a story about a return to a mythical past that will make it all better.
We need to be there to present another story, and it has to feel authentic. It has to feel true. It can't come across as pandering, condescending, or manipulative. One of the best ways to do this is by inviting people to share their stories and [allow those stories and lived realities to shape our strategies and vision.] Ultimately, I hope we can create a meta-narrative that truly resonates with people about how the world got this way and what could make it better.
Haley on Why Young People Can’t and Won’t Be Duped When it Comes to their Futures
C. Nicole Mason: I also like the idea of creating a shared truth, and that's precisely what we need right now. We're told that there are many truths and that we can choose which one to believe, but I think there's a bigger shared truth rooted in our humanity, our values, and our connections. How do we uncover that shared truth and create a steady drumbeat around it? It seems we can get there by asking the right questions, which is a lot of what you all are doing at the Better Life Lab.
Brigid Schulte: That’s right: What are people experiencing? What are they afraid of? What are they dealing with? What's their pain point? And the other is the vision. Where do they want to go? What would they like? What would be better? And then in between those, how do we find that bridge? How do we get from here to there? And I think that's a lot of what our storytelling is about. How do we get there?
C. Nicole Mason: I am excited about the new work and the research that you all are doing at the Better Life Lab. It's urgent. We need it. We need the stories, especially as it seems things will get worse before they get better, particularly regarding people's economic lives.
Jeez, I don't want to end on that note because that sounds horrible. Tell me: what is bringing you both joy, peace, and laughter these days?
Haley Swenson: I have a 2-year-old. He just turned two a few days ago. It was quite the second birthday. We moved closer to our family, as my wife and I felt we needed a more supportive community around us. What has been inspiring me lately and influencing my work is watching my two-year-old interact with elder relatives from my family and seeing the connection, the human connection they can create across generations. I try to reflect on that as often as possible.
Brigid Schulte: I would say pretty much the same thing. There are times when I feel quite despairing. When I do, I spend more time on internal reflection. I take long walks, practice meditation, and try to spend time in nature. I've become much more active in my community, having organized a big neighborhood cleanup. Being in a community with other people has been really helpful. Finding time to connect with family, friends, and the community is one of the best parts of life. That is what makes us human. That human connection—connecting with other people—is what makes us happy. It's universal and will always exist, regardless of what's happening out there. That’s really where I'm finding joy and solace.
C. Nicole Mason: I want to say it's the same thing for me—connecting with community and family. When we zoom out, that's true for everyone. If we can find those connections and remember that what happens to me also happens to you, that happens to all of us, I think we'll all be better off.
Thanks to both of you. I encourage everyone to check out the work and research of the Better Life Lab and read the stories. I found them compelling. The story, for example, about the Johnsons at the grocery store, highlighting the negotiation that happens when families try to make ends meet with very little, occurs every day across the county. It really resonated with me. It's important to get these stories out so that people can understand they are not alone. You all are doing the heavy lifting—and for that I thank you.
To learn more about the work and research of the Better Life Lab at New America, please click here.
To learn more or to do something about the impending cuts to Medicaid and Snap, click here
To listen to the complete, very very good interview with Brigid and Haley, click here.
The superhero rescue myth reflects a deep-seated human desire for a benevolent force to protect and help those in need. Often involving a figure with exceptional abilities rescuing others from danger or overcoming obstacles that ordinary individuals cannot.